Strict Vs freedom

All righty, welcome back to our next episode.

I want to say hey brothers, because I, I always just, I'm

like, hey brother, you. Know what?

Yeah, go. Ahead.

OK. Hey brothers, how you doing?

Hi brothers. See, it's catchy.

Thank me later. It is catchy.

I like it. What's up, brother?

I like it. What were you saying earlier?

You're like gnarly or something. What?

In the Tar Nation. What in the tar?

Nation. What in the Tar Nation?

OK guys, so when we start getting feedback from you, let

us know where you want our opening to be.

Do you want it to be hey brothers, or do you want it to

be what in the TAR Nation? What in the tar?

Nation. Yeah, we we can do a little.

Bit of mixtures Hey brothers, what in the Tar Nation?

I love it. I love it.

OK, so welcome. Welcome back.

We are going to talk about in this episode when home isn't

safe. So this one I think is going to

get a little, I think they're all going to be a little deep.

But there's also light, I think. I mean, there's going to be

light in anything. Even at night.

The stars in the sky give light. There's light in anything except

the back of a cave. I went into a cave once in

Alabama with a friend. Shut all the lights off.

They said the darkest places is the back of a cave and the

deepest part of the ocean. And I've thought about it ever

since that trip. I need to call her and actually

talk to her about this. How do they know if they've

never been to the bottom of the ocean how dark it is?

But. Anyway.

Something for everyone to think about aside from, you know,

healing. OK, Anyways, got a little

sidetracked there when home isn't safe.

So we have been talking a lot about hope, hopelessness, all of

those things. And those are heavy, heavy,

heavy feelings. And when we're saying them to

you, there's going to be a whole conversation with being Keeling

after this, probably. We're on FaceTime a lot and we

go in depth a lot. So sharing with you guys, I

think it is exciting for us. Me and Kayleen, we have spent a

lot of time talking, navigating, getting triggered.

I also want to state that me and Kayleen, as you're listening,

this is not how it always looked for us.

We have gotten triggered with each other.

We have had a point in our life where I don't think either of us

liked each other at all or I know we didn't.

I think, you know, we did not, this is not how life looked for

us. We with what we went through, it

shaped us into people that we didn't even get to see each

other like. And I'm not just saying

physically, just in general. We had people.

This is going to be a perfect example of when home isn't safe.

We had people in our lives who intentionally manipulated

situations would say something to Kayleen switch that the

dynamic come to me, go back and forth, do this me killing are

irritated with each other and I'm going to dive in.

You know, I'm going to dive in. There was a scenario and then

I'm going to let Kaylene talk because I've, you know, I feel

like once one of us get talking, I feel like I talk a lot so.

No, yeah. This is so there was a scenario

and Kayleen, if there's anything in this is something I'm very

big about. If I am reliving something or

sharing something from my memories, I am very big and I

have reached out to my friends. Hey, am I remembering this

correctly? Because deep trauma affects the

brain in ways that we don't understand.

And I also, I mean, it has affected my physical brain in

ways that I now have to live with for the rest of my life.

And this is something else we can talk about in a later

episode. So I just, yeah, I want to, I

don't know. My mind just went blank.

OK, so as I was saying how we got manipulated in situations,

here's a situation I had. I was in a situation with

somebody else and the person that had put their hands on me,

I spent a lot of years thinking I had fallen to the floor or

that she had fallen to the floor from the hands of that person,

from the anger of the person that did it.

I thought that my friend had fallen to the floor.

I was wrong. The whole the whole time after

that happened, that was a very traumatizing night for me.

There was a couple nights and that were traumatizing like that

and I had thought that I had or she had fallen and I ended up

reaching out to her. We still talk to this day and I

was wrong. My brain that that situation was

so bad that I had thought that, but I was the one that actually

fell to the floor. I there was a lot that happened

that night. It wasn't just that it was a

whole thing, but with how bad it was my brain, I reach out to

people because I'm like, I want to make sure that the trauma of

the situation because the brain, it wants to protect itself as

well, right? Like I think there's a lot of

times where your brain and your thoughts, if you don't catch

them, they're going to flow down the river.

They're going to go free and they're going to flow.

And if you don't catch them, and I think it's important to

utilize resources around you and that we're in scenarios with you

to make sure, hey, this situation was really bad.

It's like a car accident. You know, if you get a really

anyone that's been in a car, car accident that's listening and

you forget, you're like, Oh my gosh, wait, I don't even

remember. Like, did I pass out?

Did I hit the steering wheel? And you don't really remember.

You kind of have to use outside sources to help you remember.

And if you do remember, it's a blessing.

And if you don't, you don't. So trauma has a very powerful

impact on the brain. And I just wanted to explain

that. But in the scenario with

Kayleen, there was somebody in our lives.

I remember Kayleen, you came and visited.

Mind you, we were older at this point.

So I'm sharing a story from when you had had a child at this

point. And we were still living in a

dynamic of our childhood when we were weren't in it anymore like

the people in our lives were. Their minds were still in an era

I would say that we had already grown out of.

But it seemed like when we were going back into the situation

with certain people, it seemed like we hadn't grown or like we

were still in that same era too. Because when we all got

together, it brought us all back to that era, unfortunately.

And I think it's very important to be cautious of things like

that too. And I'm speaking from

experience, my experience making sure in yourself and this isn't

this isn't for kids. I don't I'm I was a kid once.

It takes a while to get to this point mentally.

You're not going to be able to just look at a situation like,

Oh my, I, I got to ground myself.

I got to get some stability. You, you don't think that as a

kid, you're a kid. You're just trying to figure out

your surroundings. You know, it's like when a

puppy's born, they're trying to open their eyes.

They're trying to figure it out. You know, they're not just going

to go walk to the door at 4 weeks and try to go potty.

You got to train them. So when Kaylin came and visited,

you were staying with people and I had had my own apartment.

You wanted to come stay with me. And I remember every time the

person left the room, you were like, I want to come stay with

you because it took you when you were sitting in this scenario

with these people. And I'm speaking for you kind

of, and I apologize about that. So correct me if I'm wrong.

It, it could have felt like you were back at 15 years old

because the dynamic was still the same with those people.

Just because your whole life was different.

Their mentality of you was still you're 15 years old, even though

you're a grown adult with a child sitting there.

That's how you I think that's. The time that you're talking

about. Let me keep explaining and then

you'll know. So you wanted to come to me and

my friend's house. I'm trying to not say names

here. And you were there for three

weeks. You were staying with people for

three weeks. And when you had wanted to come,

you wanted to use Wi-Fi to do school, I believe, and they

didn't have Wi-Fi. And so you were like, I want to

come with you guys. And I was like, OK, well, let's

pick up or let's pack up. I don't know if I should say

Jaylee's name. Should I just say Jay or no?

I was like, let's yeah, I know. You know, you can say Jay.

You can say Jay. I'll just say your daughter

just, you know, OK. And I was like, well, let's just

pack up your daughter's car seat and you can come to our house

because I don't think you had a car.

I can't remember. I can't remember.

Do you remember? And then the person would come

back in the room. And I don't know the power of

the dynamic, I think has the ability to make you freeze in

that scenario because now you're in this dynamic and I'm speaking

in situations, not just you directly in this situation.

Now your mentality has now shifted back to when you're 15

because you're like. Because I'm still a mom, I'm

still got a family. Right.

But being back in. That home.

Right. Does it?

So am I explaining it? Are we aligned on how I'm

explaining? It, yes, yes, OK.

So like 3 times I think you would express to us you wanted

to come over. I'm like, we have Wi-Fi, let's

get her car seat. It's one night out of three

weeks you are allowed to come to my house.

We are grown about here in our 20s because.

You're my sister. I wanted to go in normal, right?

Right. And I think in that scenario, it

put you back into mental captivity because that's the

power of that dynamic that that dynamic had for are we aligned

on that as well or no? Yes, yes.

OK, so I remember that night. Mind you, I have my friend with

me that has been witnessed so much.

And this person comes out one more time.

I'm like OK. And when he leaves, I'm telling

you again, hey, go pack up her car seat and let's go to my

house. That like we're kind of

whispering though, because I'm also in the same dynamic.

So I may be saying that like I was like, hey, pack it.

I was kind of more. Like no, right.

Oh, and to be, I was living in North Carolina, visiting

Michigan and you lived in Indiana.

I just wanted to share that just so right, I don't know.

Sorry, I don't know if you mentioned that.

I was just elaborating on that just anyways, OK, yes, and I

wanted to come stay. I'm glad you remember, except

first I was like, oh brother, yes, yes, I was trying to.

I went to visit. Michigan No, no, you're good.

I I was visiting Michigan for three weeks and one day.

Your daughter at the time. Right.

OK. We're both like, sorry, we're

OK. We're OK, all right.

See you guys, you just saw us like we have to.

This is how we have to navigate sometimes, too.

So you're healing with us, too. Like, we can't wait, you know?

I mean, yeah, it's so powerful. Anyways, so the person leaves

and we're thinking, you know, now we're just back whispering

to each other. Pack yourself, like, come on.

And you're like, I really want to go over there.

I need Wi-Fi. And I, it wasn't even about the

Wi-Fi. It was just coming over, like so

simple as grown adults that you should be able to do.

And that person comes out from the hallway and starts screaming

at me directly, cussing me out, screaming at me.

You don't know how to leave situations alone.

She told you she didn't want to come.

Why do you have to push and push and push and screaming at me

directly? And I remember I was just like,

what in the world? Like it took me back to when I

was living with them. And I remember being so taken

back and just, yeah, my heart was breaking because it's just

so much to deal with. So I remember I walked back and

to their room and I was like, hey, I'm really sorry that it

felt that way or whatever. I just wanted Keeling to come

stay the night, you know? And they sat there and they're

like, after just screaming at me and degrading me.

And I'm saying degrading because when a person that is supposed

to love and care about you speaks to you that way, as you

know, whether you're in your 20s, a child, teens, or even

when you're 60, it affects you in a way that if a friend did

it, it would still affect you. But when it's supposed to be

someone in that area of your life that's doing it right, it

affects you differently. And I, I go back there and I

apologize and the person leans, I'm like, why are you freaking

out? We're not even mad.

Why are you acting like we're mad?

Like gas lighting like as though and what are you talking about?

It makes it made me and for a long time in my life, so many of

those situations happened that it made me feel crazy because

I'm sitting here and then I'm like, hey, I'm sorry.

And then they're like, what are you talking about?

That never happened. And it's like, what do you mean?

And then that's why I'm saying when.

Everybody in the house witnessed.

It right, right. And then you have certain people

that would be like no, you, you're that didn't happen.

It's like it messes with your mind.

So Kaylene, you end up coming with me.

See, there's hope guys. You end up coming with me and I

think it was that same day we were told to be back at the

house by I think 11, if I'm not mistaken.

I could be right. Like I felt like a kid again,

dude. Like oh, OK.

So let me explain this. We shared a little bit about how

much freedom we had with a certain person.

Now shifting that into this dynamic I got asked before.

It was complete off right. Completely like if you're going

to move it and not to this extreme, just an example.

If you're going to move your leg out and move your right foot out

first to step, you need to ask permission going from Oh my

gosh, I'm not even wearing shoes.

My legs are going to do whatever they want to going to that.

It's 2 completely different extremes on the same like play

field, if that makes sense, right.

So I mean, this extreme of not having anything, anyone to this

extreme of ask to breathe. I'm just kidding.

That's, that's not funny. But like, it was, you know, it

was very intense. That was a very hard shift.

I think we can both agree on that.

So we were told to be back at a, I'm pretty sure it was 11.

Mind you, this was years ago, so I don't know the exact time, but

I remember Kayleen, we got there on time and when we arrived at

the house that day, do you remember what I'm talking about?

We arrived at the house that day.

We made sure because we knew, we know the dynamic that we were at

the house and we get there and the people in the house were

like, they don't care about anybody.

And I was like, we're here at we're here, but like we're here

when we said we would be here. We are here at 11.

Let's go do what we said we were going to do.

Don't even talk to them. Don't even worry about it.

No, they just care about themselves.

We're not doing anything today. And it's like.

And then I said, why? Like be back here at 11 because

we're going to go do ABC and D, right?

And then we get. There we look forward to.

It we looking forward to it, we're not doing it.

You guys are serious right now. And guys, here's the thing,

we're not saying. Let me explain it more because

it sounds like we're just being like, oh, we didn't get to go do

what we wanted. No, we didn't get to experience

family things really ever that much.

And if we did, you know, it's very, very few in between.

So having an excitement to go with these people and go do

something, it was exciting. But it you know, so when we get

there, they're explaining to us, they're like, I told you that we

were leaving when I wanted to leave.

And I was like, you told us to be here at 11 and that's when

we're here. Well, I told you we were leaving

when I was ready and I was like, how are we supposed to know when

you're ready? Well, I said it, you should have

been here. And it's like it makes your mind

feel literal insanity because it's like, I am here when you

told me to be here. I'm doing what we were asked to

do. We're navigating our entire life

to like, even when we're doing everything you want, it's still

not right. And we're still not good enough

and we're still getting yelled at, we're still getting cussed

out at. We're still pieces of crap.

We're still all of these things. And it's like, I, I had a point

with it. I'm not good enough.

So that was kind of the scenario I was sharing.

I don't know why that's what I shared it because it's what came

to mind. I'm not really sure why.

So right. But which is so funny that you

bring that up because I was just telling my husband the other day

about the three weeks I spent in Michigan.

I said, you know, I don't regret any of the time or whatever

while I was there because I had fun, but I bought my own plane

ticket there and back. And with that being said, I wish

if I could have gone back in time, I would have not have let

you know, individuals try to control the situation and make

me stay somewhere because there was friends that I didn't go see

that I wish I would have and especially you.

I wish that we would have. I just wish that I would have,

but but I say that now, but when I'm back in that same

environment, I, I immediately feel like a kid again every

single time. Like I'm like, no, I can't.

I can't do any. If they say no, then it's no.

It doesn't matter if I'm twenty 30-40 years old, If I'm there, I

I feel like a kid again. I feel like I'm not able to, you

know? Right.

And This is why I like with change.

I use it as such a big I use it a lot.

I feel like in this podcast for some reason, because change, as

we've made changes, I think the biggest like mentality barrier

that I've had to fight through is realizing just because we've

done certain things doesn't mean other people have.

So if we sit here and we're in therapy groups and we're in

recovery groups and we're doing all XY and Z for ourselves.

When we go back into that dynamic, it's still the same

dynamic because it's still their dynamic.

It's not our dynamic. So that's where like a lot of

boundaries have had to come in. It's like if you want to see me,

which isn't an option right now or hasn't been for a really long

time, but if you want to see me, you can meet me in a public

place for this amount of time and then we will leave.

I'm not coming to your house because then that opens the

door. If something happens, it can get

flipped on you. Oh, well, I'll just you

trespassed. I'll call the police.

And it's like that's an insane thing to try to process when you

were sitting there in a house and you're kind of fighting your

mentality and yourself to be in that scenario at this point

because you have acres and acres and acres of stuff that have

already happened to keep showing up and killing.

That's why you're so strong because to keep showing up and

keep trying after, you know, the damage that has been inflicted,

it just shows so much, you know, because grace and it's something

only God can do. It's like, you know, and we're,

we're not giving names because obviously I believe people are

good and bad. And if you feed the bad in you,

that's what's going to be expressed in your life.

If you're not trying to be good, you're just not, it's just not

going to happen. So that is an example of like

how when we were a little bit older and like I said, I don't

know why that's that's why I'm not really sure that.

No. I was trying to find the picture

because I was going to go off of Killeen.

Is there like anything that's coming to your mind as we're

talking that you want to talk about just in general?

Well, I feel like one thing that that really shaped us growing up

was the contrast between the two households that we lived in.

On one side, we had a lot of freedom, like you were saying,

we had a lot of freedom. No supervision, very not many

rules. And we weren't bad kids either.

I don't think we were either. We were never like.

No, we were, we were. I would say we were very and we

get compared, but I don't know if I want to say that, but but

one household with you know, not many rules and we could kind of

just do what we wanted. Then on the other side and the

other household, which was the completely opposite, very

strict, very controlled environment, we weren't like

allowed to go to birthday party. So you heard us speaking earlier

about when we were outside. I mean, we wouldn't come back

till midnight if we wanted to being, you know, 11-12, twelve

years. Old mind you, during that time

of freedom that we're using the word freedom.

This isn't a freedom of like, Oh my gosh, I broke free.

This isn't a freedom of, Oh my gosh, you know, spiritually

free. This is freedom in regards to

not having any rules, any structure.

This is freedom specifically on what our environment was

freedom. We're using it differently than

how it's normally used. I just wanted to say because

this is when we were being exposed to addiction, we were

also processing, watching people in our lives go through

addiction at a very young age. So we had that happening while

we're all this is happening. So anyways, I just wanted to say

that because during all of these moves and everything, we weren't

just moving. We are sitting here witnessing

addiction and what it does to someone and through everything,

watching manipulation and all of these things.

But so there is so much in these moves and all of this that we

can obviously talk about in later episodes.

But Kayleen, go ahead. Right.

And so with the one where we didn't have much rules, that's

who we moved around a lot with and stuff like that.

OK. And then the other household,

like I was saying, like I was saying it's it was a household

that where we did not move around a lot, but on the

opposite side. Yeah, we hang on.

We, I don't want to say play stores or honestly didn't leave

the house much at all. It felt like we were living in 2

completely different worlds and we experienced, you know, on one

side a lot of things and then on the other side a lot of things.

Trying to switch between those environments was not easy

because it's like you go to having all this freedom to going

to not having any freedom at all.

It's like your hands and feet got tied before you, even though

the other place wasn't healthy. Now you're in another unhealthy

place and killing. I think I've explained it to you

this way and some other people in my life.

We were on this battlefield and this is when when we start

shifting to when killing left a certain household and I left a

certain household and blah, blah, blah.

I shouldn't say blah blah blah because it was like really

intense stuff, but. Right.

Like the stricter, the stricter household.

I eventually, I guess, I guess we could say moved.

Out. So to speak.

And you were. You had ended up staying back

because you were right. Because, and that's sorry I keep

interrupting you. No, you're good.

You're good. Go ahead.

I, I, I was just going to explain really quick, we are on

this battlefield like when a war zone you have, let's just use

colors, yellow on the right side, green on the left side.

And you're thinking, OK, at, at the end of the day, something's

someone's going to win. There's going to be a good

outcome on one of the sides. There's going to be something

good, you know, And so in this dynamic of two extremes, we've

got team Yellow and we got team green.

What we didn't realize as kids and trying to navigate and make

situations, no matter what side of the battlefield we chose, we

were going to go through living hell.

There was no good side to pick. We were going to have to go

through these life experiences on both sides that people, some

people never get exposed to in their entire life.

And that's not their fault. That's a blessing for those

people. And if you're, if you're one of

those people listening that you haven't experienced those

things, that's a blessing and you are a blessing that that's

also an incredible life, just in a different way.

ANYWAYS, so with these two different ends of the field, it

neither side was necessarily right.

And I've had people ask, well, Oh well, would you think the

freedom was like better strict? And I'm like, well, I've

experienced both. So I I don't really think either

is good. So the highest extreme, you

know, it's not like, oh, a little bit of freedom and then a

little straight. No, it was.

It was like. Extreme on both ends. 100% yeah,

Extreme on YEAH. OK, but anyways, go ahead on

what you were saying because I cut you off.

No, no, you're, you're good. Like I feel like when you're

living in 2 completely different worlds like that and you're

trying especially because as a kid, you're trying to understand

and navigate through 2 completely different situations.

It's it's. Like.

It's very difficult and switch from between those two different

environments was not easy at all.

And in one place you used to have an independence and you

know, making your own decisions and choices.

Then you're going to the other side where it's like you're

being monitored everything you do, your phone being watched

very restricted from a lot. And mind you like, Oh, well, it

can be really, really confusing, especially as a kid still trying

to figure out the world for yourself because now you're a

kid taking care of yourself on both ends.

Because and I feel like we for you and I, I feel like we had to

grow up super quickly. I feel like we didn't really get

the I didn't. I personally feel like we didn't

get the the chance to really be kids.

I feel like we were, you know, but yeah, I think navigating

that was probably one of the hardest parts because you're

constantly adjusting. I mean, you got us moving states

all over the, all over the place, freedom, going out, doing

whatever. And then for me, when we ended

up back into the stricter environment, I had a very hard

time adjusting to it. And eventually we just were

button heads too much. And yeah, I just was asked.

I'm just going to say asked to leave.

Well, I think to Kayleen, just pointing out in that situation

at 7 specifically, it wasn't just you.

Like I know you had a hard time with it, but I also think you

had this immense amount of pressure on you because you were

still going to another household.

And in that you got such a bad end of things because now you

see where even if you would have stayed, now you see my story and

it even. And now I see yours.

Because if I in my head, I'm like, what if I would have went?

And you maybe if sometime if you were like, well, what if I would

have stayed? Now we've come together and it's

like, dude, it was a storm everywhere.

Like no side was right. And yeah, go ahead.

Well, just to clear it up, so everybody kind of understands at

at 14, I got to decide where why didn't.

Yeah, I, I made the decision that I wanted to go live in the

household. That was more freedom and stuff

like that. So I was living there and this

is where me and my sister had gotten separated.

She had stayed back and was visiting every so often.

Then things kind of, I don't even know where to go from

there. Things went downhill very, very

quickly. Yeah, well, you're visiting He,

I I don't know. Sorry if I'm like throwing it

off. No, you're not throwing it off

at all. I remember the day that I

stopped going and I had walked in to this house.

Mind you, we had two people that brought us there.

I was supposed to visit and when I walked in, there was nothing.

Mind you, this is so familiar. Like it's not like, it's not

like I just walked in and like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's

nothing here. That's not a surprise.

It was too familiar. So I'm like, I walk in, there

are beer cans all over the counter, There's beer cans on

the floor. I'm like, I can't, I was like, I

am done. I, I think I just hit a point at

that bright age that I was like, I'm done.

I can't take this anymore. And in my mind, I'm like, I'm

going to walk back out to this car and I'm going to go with

them and things are going to get better.

I'm not going to have to live through this anymore.

I'm not going to have to go through that.

And when I got into that car and I didn't go back, I did not

realize that the other side of the playing field was going to

impact me the way that it did. And I mean, not in good ways.

And I, I still try to look back and find the good and certain

things. But I mean, the impact that

going from that and then to this, I mean, guys, when, when

we, I specifically explained me and Keeling didn't really have a

relationship, I got to a point I despised Keeling because she

wasn't there. And Keeling, we've talked about

this like we have felt bad because we weren't there.

But there was no way we could have been there for each other.

There was just nothing we could have done.

There was nothing we could have done.

Because the household that you were talking about, I was living

there and you. And honestly, I don't blame you

because you know, that was an environment that none of us

should have really been in. Either of them, really.

I don't. I feel like, I really feel like

that was the day. I think that was the last time I

had saw you for a very long time.

I think so too, right? I'm pretty sure, yeah.

And then so much happened. And with that, and I honestly,

Kayleen, I'm going to end up even talking about the extent of

my hands and how long it took me to be able to eat in front of

people. I am going to go to that.

I probably won't do that in today's episode.

Right. I'm going to, I think we should.

I'm going to go a little deeper too, I think, because I mean,

when the topic of this episode is when home isn't safe.

And now we opened up and we opened up a title that is like

over a decade of our life. So, I mean, I mean, into our

teenage years. So this is kind of going to be a

wormhole. So we're going to have to break

this up a little bit. But yeah, Kelly, I think that

the explanations and the way we have described it is absolutely.

Very. Amazing I I, I think.

Yes. What do you think?

And and too, I think if you want it, we can because that's kind

of in like not ending there, but like towards the end of this,

that's where me and you, I feel like because this is our story

and then also how we came together and stuff like that.

So I feel like if you if you want to for the next.

So we our bum that we're going to end it right there.

It's just how the podcast is going to go just because we have

so much to unpack and talk about.

And also through it, we want to invite you guys in as well.

So this is going to be a really exciting time and I'm so excited

to see where this goes just in general and with you guys

listening to us because it took us a long time to get here and

do this. And I gratitude.

It's like, it's like I'm looking at a bird walking down the

street. That's smiling.

But yes, first for so, yeah. So next time we can just go

ahead and start back from there. Where I was living with the more

freedom, more of the freedom household and you were in the

stricter household and at the point where you had was still

coming and visiting us. And it was, I mean, there was

no, there was no electric. And so I completely understood

like there was nothing. But we'll do that, so we'll.

We'll start off there next year like you just said.

So if you guys want to hear more about our experience with the

Strict versus the Freedom, join us on our next podcast and we

will see you guys or you guys will hear us next time.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, alright, Kaylene.

Bye. Alrighty, bye y'all later.

The briefing