What we never said

0:00 Hi, welcome back to our podcast. And we left off last time

0:06 talking about strict versus freedom.

0:08 We were talking about people that in situations that affected

0:14 us, we were not putting light on who they are as people or what

0:16 they've been through. And I want to make that very

0:18 clear. We're sharing our experience,

0:21 how we were affected, like I said.

0:23 So I was killing actually, because we talked and we always

0:28 talk, but anybody who knows us, it's like game over when we're

0:32 together. But yeah, I.

0:35 Love. I know my I was explaining to

0:39 killing. I'm like, we can't explain this

0:41 without that, and we can't explain that without this.

0:44 So we can't explain 16 year old version and not go back to six

0:49 or vice versa. There's just so much how

0:51 everything was kind of like a roundabout.

0:54 So everything that was happening, it was all like a

0:55 roundabout, right? So my point is I kind of got

0:59 sidetracked there. But my point is when I was

1:02 sharing like a certain situation, it wasn't to shine a

1:06 light on somebody else. And as we like share our

1:09 experiences moving forward, it's not to put a spotlight on

1:13 anybody else, anybody else's life, who they are as people,

1:16 anything like that. We're simply sharing from our

1:20 perspective, right? So and how it affected us and it

1:25 is the truth and it's our truth. And everything that's being

1:30 shared isn't an attack towards anyone at all.

1:35 And nobody, anybody who's listening to this podcast,

1:37 honestly, you're not even going to know who we're talking about

1:39 because we're not putting like specifics for a reason.

1:42 Because first of all, we don't feel like revengeful or hateful

1:48 towards anybody. That's why we're doing this

1:51 because we've gone gotten to such a place of like gratitude

1:56 and being thankful for the life that we had.

1:58 So with that, with what we've been sharing, definitely in the

2:02 last episode, we, I feel like going in depth with some of the

2:07 things that were happening like manipulation and the intensity

2:12 of abuse that we're going to talk about in the future and the

2:16 intensity of addictions and all of that.

2:18 We can't really get to where we're wanting to get on the

2:21 podcast without sharing situations that we went through

2:26 because that's what made us who we are today.

2:28 And what that being said to before we move forward and

2:30 before I let Kayleen finally talk is another thing I want to

2:34 be clear about is as we're sharing these stories, we're

2:38 also very aware and Killeen, we've talked about this so much.

2:41 So I know we're on the same page about it.

2:43 So with that all with everything that I'm saying right now and

2:49 like starting this episode, the people I want to be clear too

2:56 because as we're sharing these things and we're going to share

2:59 a lot about ourselves in the future as well.

3:01 You my perspective is and simply like I said, this is my

3:06 perspective. Anyone that's gone through

3:08 similar things that we share on this podcast might feel the same

3:12 way or have experienced the same thing.

3:13 But when, when you go through 24 years of chaos, abuse, trauma,

3:20 you don't leave that and not have some side effects or

3:22 characteristics. So we've also had to work 10

3:25 times harder to dig out literally everything.

3:31 It's like taking a spoon and like digging this giant grave of

3:37 like everything that you learned with a tiny, tiny like

3:39 tablespoon and trying to navigate and dig that hole and

3:45 figure out, OK, that doesn't belong there.

3:48 This doesn't belong there. That's not who I want to be.

3:51 That's not even who I am. I'm only reacting that way

3:53 because it's all I know. Things like that.

3:56 So I just really wanted to explain that before moving

3:59 forward because with the things that we are sharing and talking

4:03 about, it's we have so much understanding now.

4:07 And some things I've said through my healing as well as

4:09 like I have had a moment. It was like 1 super intense

4:14 moment. I was like driving my car and I

4:18 put myself in one of our parents shoes and I looked in the

4:22 rearview mirror and I pretended like I had three kids sitting in

4:26 the back seat. I had all this childhood trauma,

4:30 don't have a relationship with any of my family, All of this

4:32 stuff, XY and Z, trying to battle my own addictions,

4:37 whatever it may be. And I wanted to, I literally

4:39 like sat there in silence in my car and was like, I want to try

4:46 the best I can to put myself in their shoes so I can understand

4:49 them. So with what we're sharing, this

4:52 isn't about they did this, they did this, they're this way

4:56 because this we're this way. No, none of that is factual.

4:59 None of that is the base of what we're doing.

5:02 It's simply to express our journeys and how we got to where

5:10 we are. So I know I kind of just went in

5:12 a little rampage there. I just really wanted to dive

5:15 into that for a second because anyone who listens to this, you

5:20 could be on the other end of it too.

5:22 Where? I basically got court ordered to

5:24 move back into the stricter household so that I feel like

5:29 just it being more of a court ordered thing and then, you

5:33 know, I would lock myself in the room.

5:35 I was, it was just, it was really, really new to me and I

5:42 just, I don't know, I, I felt so out of place.

5:47 I was missing basically my best friend.

5:49 And then, you know, I just felt really, really out of place.

5:55 And then tired thing. Little did I know, like I, I'm

5:59 not when I say I locked myself in my bedroom, I literally

6:02 barely came out. And so I feel like that kind of

6:08 put a damper on where our relationship could have started

6:12 like you and you and I, Adrian. And so I feel like I'm kind of

6:18 part of the reason why then we didn't really wasn't really able

6:23 to start having, you know, a relationship like we could have

6:26 let. Me interrupt you at some point?

6:28 Yeah, I got. No, Yeah, yeah.

6:30 OK. OK.

6:33 So OK. Well, I can ask you since

6:36 stopping there just to see how like you, you viewed it whenever

6:41 I moved in, looking in on it from the other side like how was

6:46 it for you like? OK, this is so funny.

6:49 Whenever I moved in. So whoever's listening, I just

6:54 want you to know that me and Kayleen can sit on FaceTime from

6:58 the time we wake up to the time we go to bed, fall asleep on

7:00 FaceTime together, do life together, go grocery shopping

7:04 together over FaceTime, all these things.

7:07 And we still do not run out of things to talk about.

7:10 And this is a question that you've never asked me.

7:12 So I'm like, oh, wow. I feel like we talked about

7:14 everything. And it's like, no, we haven't.

7:17 So I just think it's funny. So whoever is listening, you

7:20 guys are kind of, you're getting the insight of our face times.

7:24 Obviously they're not all like this, like, obviously, you know,

7:27 but yeah, yeah. So there's so much that was

7:31 going through my mind as you were sharing like so, so much

7:33 because I can see your perspective of what you're

7:37 explaining. So me and Kayleen to everyone

7:43 who's listening. Me and Kayleen, when we lived

7:46 together and we moved around together and all of these

7:49 things, right? And then when someone got

7:50 custody of us, we went together, but we were not doing life

7:54 together. It's like when so much is

7:57 happening like that, I don't even think we could like be

8:00 present with each other with ourselves.

8:02 So we weren't we weren't even kids, you know.

8:05 So when that specific situation happened, I remember there was

8:10 that little heater in the house because you know how guys,

8:14 people struggle. And I'm not even just saying

8:17 like if your parents and if you're listening to this, if you

8:22 are looking at other people's situations and they have a big

8:26 house or AC throughout the whole house, that stuff doesn't

8:32 matter. And I just want to be very clear

8:34 before I finish sharing what I'm sharing because that's not what

8:37 I'm pointing out in the scenario.

8:39 I have so much gratitude and so much thankfulness for my parents

8:43 for doing what they could. And the fact that there was a

8:47 heater in the living room and stuff like that.

8:49 I just, I don't know why I felt the need to say that.

8:51 But since I said the heater, I was like, OK, well, I want to be

8:53 very clear because the rest of the house didn't have heat and

8:58 everything like that. We always had like the one room

9:00 that had AC. And I'm so glad that we grew up

9:05 the way we did, honestly, because I feel like it just gave

9:09 such, I don't know, I gave. I'm so grateful, you know, so.

9:14 I feel like we're, we have very adaptive personalities.

9:18 I feel like we move into an A home with no heat.

9:22 It it's fine. I, I, I, I mean, obviously, you

9:26 know, but I just feel like we're, we're really good at

9:29 adapting. And not even that, but I feel

9:31 like now that we're adults and we've had our own struggles, we

9:34 can look back at like not even just that situation, just other

9:37 things and be like, Oh my gosh, I that it is hard to get through

9:41 that it's and killing you specifically.

9:44 Wow. It is hard to manage this and

9:47 have kids and whole family and try to do life, school, bills,

9:53 all of the these things. It gives you a different

9:55 perspective. And so when you look back, it's

9:57 like, should things have been differently?

10:00 Absolutely. But at the same time, there's

10:01 also, it's like joy and grief. I've been saying this a lot

10:05 recently. It's like this battle of joy and

10:07 grief because now you're an adult, but you're also grieving,

10:11 you know, at the same time. Got sidetracked there.

10:14 My point is, I remember I was sitting by that little heater in

10:16 the living room, and I remember when you got brought back to the

10:20 house. And a part of me, how do I say

10:24 this, because I don't even know exactly how I'm thinking it.

10:28 So I was happy with her Keeling because even though like through

10:37 all the states, all the moves, everything, I feel like we were

10:41 always surrounded by people. It still felt so lonely because

10:46 there was no sense of belonging or home.

10:48 We're meeting all these people, but they have pictures on their

10:52 walls. They have a consistent

10:55 Thanksgiving. And it's not even just about the

10:57 holidays. It's the concept of they know

11:00 where they belong. I feel like I've spent a lot of

11:03 the majority of my holidays, where am I going this year?

11:05 What am I doing? And sometimes I'm just like, I

11:08 just want to be alone. So when Kaylene came back to the

11:12 house that day, I remember, I mean, that's my sister, you

11:16 know, even if we weren't close at that time, you know, our

11:20 relationship didn't build until like our mid 20s.

11:22 I. Thought of you is excited, you

11:24 know, like my sister. But I will say, I saw what it

11:32 did to you. It is very, very hard and I

11:34 don't even think we can explain it into detail enough.

11:37 The extreme, the extreme that stem the extreme of going from

11:42 that immense amount of freedom in which I agree with you, too

11:45 much freedom is very is actually not good.

11:49 People need structure. They need and I'm not saying

11:53 getting complacent. I'm I'm saying just like

11:55 structure, not getting complacent and moving forward

11:59 and not growing. I'm saying just genuine

12:02 structure. And I felt like we never had

12:05 that. So when you came back, I felt

12:08 somewhat structure with the one parent because they didn't move

12:12 around as much. So it brought a different kind

12:15 of but with a different battle. So right.

12:20 But I I saw how much you were dealing with and things started

12:23 getting so bad so fast with what was happening in that house with

12:27 me. I felt like, you know, it was

12:29 really good at 1st and then like abruptly terrible.

12:33 So I want to say two things killing because I'm going to ask

12:36 you a question. First I want to say whoever is

12:39 listening to this, if you have a mixed family, if you're younger,

12:43 if you're older, if you're someone that is married to

12:47 someone and you guys are engaging in a mixed family, it

12:51 is very, very difficult definitely if the kids are older

12:55 to try to merge that those two lifestyles together.

12:59 And I think it put. Like having a step parent and.

13:02 Not that it's a bad thing, but it takes a lot of patience,

13:07 understanding, talking, communication, all the things.

13:13 Cuz when you're taking two, and mind you ours was, it wasn't

13:16 just a normal situation. You're taking this extreme

13:19 situation of what we've already dealt with prior, trying to

13:23 bring it into a situation where they had had a little bit more

13:27 stability. So it's kind of like we looked

13:30 like a whirlwind. I felt like coming into that

13:32 situation, it's like we are just like coming in at 100.

13:37 Not that we were bad because I obviously we were kids to

13:41 whoever's listening. Obviously we were kids.

13:43 We did stuff like, you know, whatever.

13:45 But do I feel like we were out there, you know, stealing,

13:50 fighting, all that? No, with the circumstances, a

13:54 lot of people I feel like could go that way.

13:56 A lot of people couldn't. And we didn't go that route.

13:59 We weren't fighters. I, I, you weren't killing.

14:03 It just wasn't one of those things where you know.

14:07 Yeah, like of trying trying to avoid conflict.

14:10 Yeah, I do want to mention, I guess I don't know like hang on,

14:16 hang on. I I guess I will share also, I

14:24 can't remember the exact age. I remember I had chose where I

14:28 wanted to stay around 1314 and then when I got court ordered it

14:33 had been a couple years after that.

14:35 So I may have been 15-16 ish maybe.

14:40 So yeah, I'm like I. Don't know.

14:45 Or maybe it had this? Year I was you were you were

14:49 gone for a while, but that's why I want to ask.

14:52 So. Guys, this is the logistics part

14:55 of it where as you're listening, you're also we're navigating too

14:59 because with so much that happened, we don't know exact

15:02 timeline. And honestly, I think some

15:04 things are kind of unanswered questions and it's like, it is

15:08 what it is. But Kaylene, that's why I wanted

15:10 to ask you, do you feel like a child that is under 16 even

15:20 should be able to make a decision that intense when in

15:25 regards to court and decide where they want to live?

15:33 I think that's going to be a hard, honestly, I feel like

15:35 that's going to be a hard question for.

15:36 You to answer because of the circumstances.

15:40 Well, I think yes, because at the time I made that decision,

15:49 everything was going very, very, I can say this, I can say at the

15:55 time I made that decision, we were in a very good place.

16:00 We had a nice apartment, everything was going good.

16:04 Things kind of slowly started going downhill, downhill.

16:09 And I feel like there's kind of a reason why I got court ordered

16:13 to move back in under certain circumstances.

16:17 Yes, I do feel as though the child should be able to choose

16:21 where they want to live because. Oh no, I just said OK, sorry.

16:28 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

16:31 So I do feel as though that that I do think depending on the age

16:36 and the circumstances, yes, I do think that they should be able

16:40 to make those choices because, you know, basically, I'm not

16:44 going to really speak on like the court ordered part of things

16:46 or why I had got court ordered to move back into the stricter

16:49 household, so to speak. But basically I was hanging out

16:53 with the wrong crowd. The household that I was living

16:57 in was a bit chaotic. So like I said, there was a

17:00 reason why I had got court ordered to move back in.

17:05 But also whenever I had got court ordered to move back in,

17:09 it wasn't very long until I had turned 17, until I had turned 17

17:17 and I was able to make the decision to move back out

17:21 because anyways, So what basically what I'm trying to say

17:27 is going from a household where and when I say whenever I was

17:31 saying freedom it I was doing a lot of different things,

17:36 experiment and what different things hanging around the wrong

17:39 people. So I did have, I would say some

17:44 like I was smoking and stuff like that.

17:47 So I was definitely coming, I was coming from a place where,

17:55 you know, I was doing a lot more heaviness and then, you know,

18:00 going to a place where I would get, I literally got my phone

18:06 took for texting my boyfriend or something like that.

18:12 So I literally went from, you know, going over to and just

18:17 smoking and hanging out to go into a household where you know,

18:21 so you going to a household where like you asked, I still

18:25 got ground right? You like ask permission and 90%

18:29 of the time it snow. So it was definitely difficult

18:33 to go from those two different environments.

18:40 Yeah, Kayleen, so that was you were also coping with a lot too.

18:46 So I think with everything giving, given everything that

18:49 was going on at the same time, like and what you're exposed to

18:55 at the same time, it can really take a toll on a person

18:59 honestly, with the whole when you got brought back to the

19:03 strict household, I was in the strict household so.

19:08 Right. It was.

19:10 I can't even explain the intensity of the two.

19:16 I was not happy. I tried to.

19:19 I will say this, whenever I got court ordered to move back in

19:23 there, I didn't make it easy for anybody in the house for reasons

19:29 that I kind of just spoke about without speaking about.

19:32 And also, like I said, I felt like I was losing.

19:36 I felt like I was losing my best friend at that time, you know?

19:41 You were meant like, you know, misunderstood a lot through that

19:45 I will say, right? And.

19:47 I I think I got angry with a lot of things.

19:50 I feel like I was, I was pretty angry for a long time with just

19:54 everything. But at the same time, Wow,

19:57 Kayleen, that's like the first time I've heard you say that.

19:59 So that I think I just had like a moment of like, holy crap.

20:03 Yeah, I was. I know I was trying to like,

20:07 because, you know, I was just living in a household I was

20:11 hanging around with. Yeah.

20:14 I was like young. I was very influenced out just

20:18 by, you know, peers and friends and stuff.

20:23 So and also, you know, somebody that was living in that

20:29 household, which I've never really spoke about this either.

20:33 A lot of a lot of confusion is that the parent I was being I

20:39 was with had had had something to do with what I was going on

20:45 with me, but it was the person that we were living with.

20:50 His girlfriend is one of the people that had influenced me to

20:56 try some things, some I don't know if I'm allowed to say

21:01 illegal, illegal things and so at that.

21:09 Time you're you're young I mean that's young when I.

21:13 See kids the age that we were. In some of these scenarios, like

21:17 that is young and honestly, I had personally, I had resentment

21:21 as I got older towards people because it's like, you know, the

21:25 type of person someone is, you know what's going on, you know,

21:28 XY and Z, why is nothing happening?

21:33 And then it's like, but then you have so much going on in this

21:36 household. If you want to even express

21:39 anything about before you cannot take that is like getting into a

21:43 relationship with somebody that is, you know, 21, however many

21:49 years old and expect them to basically talk new from day one.

21:54 Talk new, walk new, think, think new, not ever talk about a

22:00 single thing from their past and what the good or bad.

22:04 You cannot expect someone So moving children into a home that

22:09 already have experienced an immense, immense amount of life

22:14 and expecting it to be don't ever speak about that.

22:17 Don't ever bring that up. Don't have feelings about that

22:20 immediately. Right, but.

22:22 You have no expression in yourself.

22:27 I guess I would say more that I felt trapped, like I felt

22:31 trapped inside my own like world.

22:35 Like I I felt like I couldn't go anywhere.

22:38 I couldn't do anything. I was taken to and from work.

22:44 I was expected to be outside in the car at a certain time.

22:48 Like it didn't matter. Even at my job like that they

22:52 were taking me to, I was expected to be in that vehicle

22:56 at at the time that I, I was supposed to be off and working.

23:01 It's, I mean side work, stuff like that.

23:03 You don't really know. Sometimes it might go 10 minutes

23:06 over and it's like, OK, well then you'll need to find a new

23:11 job. I'm like, any job is like that.

23:13 So I basically went from walking to school working.

23:18 I was working at Steak and Shake at the time.

23:20 I was waitressing. I was working third shift.

23:22 I was driving to having, which I don't know if I should have been

23:28 driving, but I was, I would take anybody's, I would take

23:33 anybody's car that was in the parking lot and just like, or in

23:37 the driveway. Oh, I was like, I'll be asking

23:40 everybody like, well, yeah, like.

23:43 Everybody in. My, I'm like, well, I'm like,

23:47 everybody's just passed out. I'm like, hey, can I take your

23:49 car? I got to get to work.

23:51 Hey, like, I'm a lot tired. And I'm like, by the time I even

23:55 got back, they were still like asleep.

23:57 So I'm like, whatever. Which I mean, they like they

24:00 normally had said yes. So I was never like reported.

24:04 Yeah. I was like the comfortability

24:06 thing. And so, yeah.

24:07 So then and then I go into a household where it's basically

24:11 like, you know, that I was getting threatened to have what

24:20 is the what is the juvenile people?

24:25 They were constantly being. I was constantly because since I

24:28 was court ordered to live there, I was constantly being

24:31 threatened to oh. If you didn't like, be.

24:34 Called on listen to like if I didn't abide by the rule right

24:39 then I would be like threatened to be called on like, oh, we'll

24:43 just call. I can't remember the people like

24:48 the juvenile like. Killing places.

24:51 Or whatever. I think it's so powerful

24:54 everything that you've shared in the past, like just this past

24:58 whole moment, because people can look into the situation and if

25:04 somebody's look like just taking it from their perspective or

25:07 another person's word, they can look into your situation and be

25:10 like that child does not listen. That child is crazy.

25:13 That child is this and have this whole audience of people that's

25:16 like, Oh my gosh, like that child is off the hook.

25:19 But if people sat and. Listened.

25:22 If people sat and listened to other people, what you just

25:28 shared explains why. It's why everything was

25:32 happening the way it was happening.

25:34 Like you weren't just off the hook, you weren't just a crazy

25:38 child. You weren't just waking out,

25:41 whatever. You just humbly admitted not

25:45 just things that were happening around you, things that you

25:50 personally, you didn't go into detail, obviously things that

25:53 you personally were struggling with.

25:54 If people could sit and listen and mind you at the same time,

25:59 you're still a kid. You don't even know your own

26:03 emotions and you didn't grow up in a house where you can go

26:07 home. There was nowhere for you to go

26:10 to find comfort. Now, did you live with a certain

26:12 person that gave you that sense of best friend and partnership?

26:15 Not partnership, but like if you do life with someone, whether

26:18 it's a best friend, a dog, whatever, it's like a

26:19 partnership. You're doing life together.

26:22 You're paying rent together, even if it's a friend, you know

26:25 what I'm saying? It doesn't have to be a spouse,

26:27 but you're doing life with someone.

26:30 But that still wasn't a comfort place for you, because that's

26:33 the place where you found some of your darkest moments too good

26:37 and dark I. Didn't feel welcomed like I,

26:42 yeah, it was, it was a whole new environment.

26:45 I felt like I was just treated like, like just basically

26:50 somebody that could be, I don't want to say controlled in a

26:54 sense, but it was just too much. So I wasn't there very long

26:59 before. Yeah, I wasn't there very long.

27:04 And finally one night there was an argument that had broke out.

27:08 And so I was asked to leave and I immediately packed my bags.

27:12 I called everybody, my phone. There was only one person which

27:16 that had picked up and came and got me, which that's a whole

27:21 nother story on that because that started on whole nother

27:26 journey of things. So yeah, I wasn't very long.

27:31 And so I, I felt bad honestly. Now looking back on it, I didn't

27:36 ever really you were put in the middle of during that time.

27:40 Like I, because I feel bad for you during that time because you

27:44 were there and I remember seeing your face when when they would

27:48 call the police officers over and they were like, Hey, you

27:52 know, you've seen it. And you would just stand there

27:55 with a blank face, like not knowing what to do because like

27:59 you were, you were put in some tough situations as well.

28:03 Oh, sorry, you were, you were put in some tough situations as

28:06 well and kind of was put in the middle of, I would say like me

28:13 being your sister. And then as one of the parents

28:17 that we had, you know, you were basically put in the middle as

28:21 though you were supposed to take one of our sides and you didn't

28:25 know what was going on. I mean, you were a kid, so and I

28:29 had seen another side of things and you had already experienced

28:36 and you had already experienced so much there.

28:39 So it's like you was not about to say a word.

28:44 And now, now all these years later, I can look back and see

28:49 why. But in my head I was like, I

28:51 don't understand why you're not speaking.

28:53 I don't understand why you're not saying anything.

28:55 I was like, you just seen everything that happened.

28:56 Just tell, tell them. And you blank face just like,

29:01 well then you didn't say a word then.

29:05 Screaming at me and I'm like. Not saying anything at all.

29:09 So I'm like, I can only imagine if you had actually like said

29:14 something. So like, I don't know, I feel

29:16 like you, I looking back on that situation, I can definitely see

29:21 where you had already been affected in that household

29:27 because I could see it on your face, you, which I didn't know

29:31 at that time, but I had no idea at that time that you had been

29:36 going through that until years later we start talking about

29:40 everything. I'm like looking back on certain

29:42 things. I'm like, that makes so much

29:44 sense as to why I thought I was just being treated differently.

29:49 But no, like, you know, I, I think it was me and me and you

29:57 basically as a whole. I truly feel that way.

30:00 I am, I know, like there's a lot more siblings involved, which

30:05 we're not going to get into them, but I feel like outside of

30:08 anything you and I were treated, that's really how I feel.

30:13 I feel like you Oh, I don't want to keep speaking for you though.

30:17 Like. I've done it too like this

30:19 whole. Time I know I'm I know, but that

30:23 I'm saying how I feel like from outsider looking in and looking

30:28 back then on how I feel or how I felt looking back on that

30:34 situation and knowing everything.

30:36 I know I was going to ask you though, like because I don't

30:41 want to speak for you, but that is completely, you know, I don't

30:45 know. As as kids, I feel like you feel

30:49 a certain way when you're in the situation and then you become an

30:52 adult and you can see it from a kids point of view, being in the

30:56 situation. And then you can also see it

30:58 from the adult version of you looking back.

31:01 And you can really like judge like, or you can really like,

31:06 yeah, judge the situation and like, OK, OK.

31:09 I wasn't, I wasn't crazy. I, this wasn't just me, you

31:16 know, thinking that I was this awful kid that did everything

31:20 wrong. No like.

31:23 When I want to, I want to like backtrack a little bit to when I

31:26 asked you that question about being 14 and making a decision

31:30 because whoever's listening to this podcast and if you're like

31:35 in a situation where you're not in a good situation, I was

31:40 asking Kayleen specifically because I wanted her answer and

31:44 for what we're sharing, I wanted her answer and that because each

31:47 situation looks different. So with everything that Kayleen

31:49 shared, that's her answer. And it actually gives expression

31:53 to situations at that, if that makes any sense to whoever's

31:57 listening. Kayleen, is it making sense to

31:59 you how I'm ordering it? Yeah, it's yeah, OK.

32:03 Because that obviously we could be in a room full of 20 people,

32:07 20 different experiences and ask one question, even if it's are

32:11 the fries that In-n-out crispy and 10 people could say no and

32:16 10 people could say yes. Because everyone has their own

32:19 experience and different opinions, perspective.

32:21 So I was asking that right towards like our situation.

32:25 But whoever's listening, like I said, every situation looks

32:28 different. So that answer could vary.

32:30 I just wanted to be clear on that because that was a very

32:33 intense question. I feel like that could have been

32:34 taken multiple different ways. So I just wanted to clarify that

32:38 this is targeted towards our situation.

32:42 Kaylene, you definitely shared like a lot which it's all been

32:47 super good. And I honestly, I got some

32:50 perspective of situations that we've talked about, I mean, so

32:54 much. And I still like even every day

32:58 when we talk, I just feel like it's like I'm walking through

33:00 this field and oh, there's a dandelion.

33:03 Oh, there's a flower. Oh, there's a tree.

33:05 Like there's just so many things looking back on.

33:09 Because I feel like if we would have been doing, trying to have

33:11 these conversations when we were younger, Oh my gosh, we would

33:15 not see eye to eye. We would have, we were in two

33:17 total different perspectives, you know, so it's.

33:22 Just so powerful. To like look back and be able to

33:26 realize what was happening and why because reactions when you

33:32 get older and you start working on healing and stuff, you, you

33:35 learn as kids, you don't have those tools.

33:38 Well, we didn't. Some kids might have the

33:41 advantage of like therapy and stuff like that, but it still

33:43 can be hard to navigate because you're a kid.

33:45 So when I'm saying that too, if you have an opportunity to do

33:50 therapy as a kid, I say do it. You can build tools younger and

33:55 it's going to help you in the long run, even no matter what

33:58 you're dealing with. That's my personal opinion.

34:01 And therapy can look like many different things.

34:03 I'm not pushing therapy on anybody by any means, but it can

34:05 look like many different things. Doing something you love,

34:08 Drawing, singing. Playing for.

34:12 Yeah, meditation or medication. Meditation.

34:18 I thought you said meditation. No, no.

34:24 But yeah, killing with the whole thing with the police, I was

34:29 like sitting there thinking why you were showing that, because

34:32 that was, you got to think I was in that household.

34:37 So when all this stuff is happening, there are certain

34:40 things when you're in a very, how can I word it controlled

34:49 environment? Strict is a word, but also

34:52 controlled is a very like. I think it can take take it on a

34:55 deeper level. Yeah, first I was.

35:00 Scared, OK, like all this stuff is happening.

35:02 I'm at a point in my life where I'm just like scared of

35:03 everything and anything. I mean, you know, you just don't

35:06 know what's going to happen next.

35:08 I felt like a ninja like. So I was like, and when that was

35:12 happening, I was just so happy you were back.

35:16 I mean, now I'm, I don't have that choice.

35:19 Like because at that point I didn't want to go to the other

35:21 household, but I'm thinking this one's good.

35:23 And then now I have this whole whirlwind of stuff.

35:27 That's you know, it. It was there wasn't a win win

35:30 situation in it that and that's why I say.

35:32 It was vice versa, Like I wanted to stay at the other household

35:35 and didn't want to go there. And so like, it was just, yeah.

35:40 And then it completed us so much because for a long time you're

35:44 hearing you're living one life, I'm living the other.

35:48 It's like if you go to have tacos with someone and you both

35:50 like different cheese, it takes a while for you guys to see eye

35:53 to eye. Oh, OK, maybe I'll try yours.

35:55 Like I feel like it took us a really long time to get where

35:57 we're at because you both of our perspectives were so strong.

36:01 But at the same time, now that we've come together, we're

36:04 taking both of our perspectives and be like, OK, well, whole

36:08 building, everything turned to ashes.

36:12 Everything turned to ashes. And that is why our podcast is

36:14 called Ashes Became Altars because I really feel like our

36:18 life became ashes. And at such a young age, we both

36:21 ended up in a homeless situation with nobody to call, with no

36:26 help, no family, really all of these things.

36:29 We both had that place at some point where it was like, I am

36:33 the only person I got. It's a sad.

36:37 Place. Yeah, but we did the work on it

36:41 and that's why. Yeah, we did.

36:44 I think with the whole, everything that you shared, I, I

36:52 can't explain what I was feeling as you were sharing because it's

36:56 so it's just so powerful and insightful to hear how you felt

37:03 in certain situations and like what you were dealing with.

37:05 Because in situations we're, so I don't want to word it like

37:11 that because it just sounds so harsh, but we're selfish.

37:14 You know, when you're dealing with something, we only think

37:16 about our own feelings. But in reality, we're not the

37:18 only ones in the situation. There's when you have an

37:22 argument with somebody, there's two people in the situation.

37:25 It's not just you that's feeling something.

37:26 The other person is too. So when we were younger, I think

37:30 it was easier for me to mind you, Keelene, I want to be clear

37:34 and whoever is listening like this could go into perspective

37:37 for whatever you're dealing with.

37:39 I feel like I had so much going on in the house that I was

37:42 living in and so much I was carrying that when you finally

37:47 came back and then we're gone and you know, you had your own

37:50 thing going on. I feel like it made me like have

37:53 so much bitterness. I think because for one, I and

37:57 we've talked about this. So whoever's listening, me and

37:59 killing have talked about this. I felt, you know, bitter towards

38:03 Kaylene because I wanted her there and me and killing have

38:07 talked about and we've gone pretty deep about how we wish we

38:11 could have been there for each other, but there was just no way

38:14 that we possibly could have even if we wanted to.

38:18 Like there was so much happening and in the stricter household

38:23 and controlled environment, when somebody has control over you, I

38:26 can't explain. You know, I hear people in so

38:30 many situations and typically it's to do with spouses.

38:33 The majority of stories that I've heard, obviously it happens

38:37 in other circumstances. Mine happened with parents and

38:45 when people are sharing like this intense manipulation, how

38:48 hard it was to get away from and all these things, there's people

38:51 that are, well, why don't you just leave?

38:55 And when it came to a parent situation specifically, and I'm

39:03 not pointing any parent out. This is not I'm just speaking.

39:08 I don't know how to say this without pointing a parent out.

39:10 Like I feel like I don't know if that.

39:12 I know it's so hard. It's.

39:14 Really hard. It is so hard.

39:18 That's what I kept doing whenever I was trying to explain

39:20 it. That's why I was just sitting

39:21 there 'cause I'm like, I don't know how to help you, brother.

39:25 But with that dynamic of family, I guess I'll word it like that.

39:30 That dynamic it is. So when you have this connection

39:35 and bond, mine looked like the dynamic of family.

39:40 It is so hard to get away from. I can't explain it the way that

39:43 I have explained it. To put it into perspective.

39:47 It's and I when I tried starting a podcast before I actually

39:50 shared this on it, I thought, I don't know what I was thinking

39:53 trying to start that. I was like in my living room.

39:55 I had my phone on a trash can on top of a fan.

39:59 I was like wow this can do big things but how I.

40:06 Have learned to share it is when you're dealing with somebody to

40:09 that intensity, whether it is a parent, spouse or a friend,

40:13 whatever it may look like. It's like a when you go fishing

40:17 and you're throwing the bait into the water and the fish

40:21 hooks it. The fish bites the hook and you

40:23 reel it in and then you know the fish is hurt, The fish is in

40:28 pain. Then you take the fish off and

40:31 you throw it back in the water and then he swims down.

40:34 He thinks he's free. And then you throw the hook back

40:36 in with the bait on it again. And then the fish sees the bait

40:39 and it this time, you know, swimming up and then boom, hook

40:45 in his mouth again. And it's the same process over

40:48 and over and over again. And before the fish knows.

40:50 It and then you can only go back up.

40:52 Yeah, yeah, Before the fish knows it, now he's hooked,

40:55 hooked, and now he's not getting out again because he kept going

40:58 for the bait. That's the only way I know how

41:01 to explain manipulation and a controlled relationship as well.

41:06 It is like that fish. Because then you think it's

41:08 good, you know, and that that is exactly what a controlled, like,

41:14 abusive relationship is. People, that was a great way of

41:18 explaining that. People stay because not all

41:21 things are bad and not all things are all good.

41:23 That's just the bottom line. It's life.

41:25 There's no all good, there's no all bad.

41:28 There's both. Whatever you feed and whatever

41:31 you strive for, that's what's going to be your outcome.

41:33 If you're waking up every day and you're like, today's going

41:35 to be a bad day. It's going to suck.

41:36 You're going to get stuck in traffic.

41:38 Kayleen, I got stuck, stuck in traffic earlier.

41:44 You're like going to go into traffic and be stuck in it and

41:47 you're going to be mad rather than be able to sit back and be,

41:50 oh, am I stuck in traffic? Did somebody get in a car

41:52 accident? I'm sitting here mad because I'm

41:54 stuck in traffic, but maybe somebody did get in a car

41:56 accident and you know, now their whole day is ruined or their

41:59 life. You never know.

42:01 So anyways, with I kind of got off track there for a second,

42:05 but with that bait and everything like that, it's so

42:08 good, right? They when the fish use the bait,

42:11 it's you stay in situations because there is good as well.

42:15 Not only bad they're they can be humorous, but behind closed

42:20 doors, their anger speaks to their fist.

42:23 They can be the life of the party, but behind closed doors

42:28 you fear your life. Just things like that.

42:33 It's this whole thing that can go deep obviously, and into so

42:36 many details or situations, whatever.

42:40 It's because that bait on that hook, it seems good.

42:43 The fish is going up, it seems good.

42:45 And that's how manipulation is. It's this repetitive process and

42:49 you don't even realize you're in it until you're hooked and

42:51 you're going to buck it. So some people never get that

42:58 freedom away from the bait to be able to swim away and go down

43:01 the sea. There's a lot of people that got

43:03 to the bucket and they're stuck in it, you know?

43:07 So that's the only way I can explain the intensity of like a

43:12 like kind of what was a situation that was handed to us.

43:18 So I know that was kind of like deep, but there's no way to

43:22 explain things without explaining things, you know?

43:25 So one household there was this immense, you know, and in the

43:34 household that I chose to stay in, I learned a lot.

43:42 I will say I learned a lot. And now?

43:44 That I'm older. Now that I'm older if I never

43:50 moved and left the environment I think that I would have

43:54 completely demolished which I did.

43:57 I I had this like self sabotage type of personality or mindset I

44:04 guess to where I would work 2 jobs, walk to work 2 hours walk

44:10 home, go to my second job. I did high school on the laptop.

44:15 I helped a friend take care of her kid, took him to school on

44:17 my back. Went to work, same routine over

44:20 and over again with no help from anybody.

44:23 Couldn't afford anything at a certain point.

44:25 Had Christmas. I mean I'm 17 years old, have

44:28 Christmas lights going through the hallway into my apartment

44:31 that I'm late on rent, behind on rent.

44:34 The landlords let me stay there without a lease trying to help

44:36 me out. I'm $2000 behind on rent.

44:39 Then I start drinking and smoking and sabotaging my life

44:42 and it, you know, these people that helped me and that's

44:46 someone I took advantage of. And I feel so bad about that

44:48 because I just was not seen clearly.

44:51 And I just went down a completely bad path there for a

44:54 second. And you know, honestly, shout

45:01 out to that landlord because what what a good man and wife

45:07 that that was, that there's this kid losing their mind that

45:13 needed a home and they let stay there and.

45:17 So was that the first place that you had stayed?

45:20 I stayed with friends before that and then I got the

45:23 apartment. OK, well, I I lived in with

45:26 somebody. That you had on their.

45:27 Own I moved in with somebody in that apartment and then, you

45:30 know, it was yeah, OK, OK. So why was I sharing that?

45:43 Oh, so because wait, what? I don't remember.

45:48 Because you were talking about whenever you had like left or

45:53 moved out whenever you were 17. And then you were talking about

45:57 that kind of just because leaving, leaving that

46:03 manipulation cycle or leaving that, you know, like.

46:08 Yeah, so I had this like, OK, so I had this like self sabotage

46:14 thing. I would build my life.

46:15 I would work, work, work. And then I would hit a point

46:19 where I don't know. I don't know what it was.

46:22 I didn't, I felt like I didn't deserve it.

46:23 I felt like I couldn't handle the pain from the past.

46:26 I don't know exactly. It was just all of these things.

46:30 Boom, I lose my apartment, boom, wreck a car.

46:34 Boom, got a DUI, all of these things.

46:38 And it's like when life was getting good, I also was still

46:41 drinking guys, I had a complete alcohol problem.

46:43 We're going to go into that later.

46:45 But my point is with this whole situation with the strict

46:48 household, it took an immense amount of like it took a heavy

46:53 toll on me because when somebody.

46:58 Is controlled on you. When but when?

47:01 But that was my reaction and my reaction.

47:05 I mean, you were, yeah. Like it wasn't right and I hurt

47:09 people along the way, but at the same time, people react and they

47:13 react the best they can. But as you get older, obviously

47:17 we're feeling, you know, do your best people don't, you know, no

47:20 excuses as you get older. I'm just kidding.

47:23 But life can be harder. And that's my point.

47:26 I've made my fair share of mistakes and I didn't make the

47:29 right decisions. And it did result in things that

47:32 really messed up my life for a while and took me a long time,

47:39 Right. And so because in that strict

47:42 household, I didn't just leave the house.

47:46 OK, when you leave a situation like that, yes, you can leave.

47:53 I still had ties because I had hope and I wanted family.

47:57 So for me, it, I felt like it was a lot harder for me to

48:00 completely let go. It took me until I moved across

48:03 the country to be able to say I'm done.

48:06 I'm not going to feel this way anymore and I'm not going to let

48:08 you guys do this to me anymore. That's and not just certain

48:11 people, just the whole dynamic. I was just done.

48:14 I was like, I'm either going to take, you know, I'm not going to

48:20 be in this world anymore because of self sabotage with abuse of,

48:25 you know, self medications per SE, or the what I was dealing

48:33 with was so heavy that I couldn't deal with it.

48:35 That's the point I hit. And in that stricter household,

48:39 when somebody is, when somebody is controlling, there's a

48:43 target, OK, you can control. You can't control.

48:48 Let me say it like this. I've done a lot of leadership

48:50 things. You can make rules, standards,

48:55 regulations and be like, OK, 5:00 We're going to sit down at

48:59 the table and everyone's going to be in a chair.

49:02 The majority of people will probably be there, but they're,

49:04 you know, you're going to have those stranglers where they come

49:06 in at five O 5, stuff like that. It's easier for someone you're,

49:12 you know how they always say, oh, they're the favorite student

49:16 because there's always like 1, Not always.

49:19 I don't know how to say it. It's like when somebody is

49:24 controlling someone, it's easier for them to control one thing

49:27 than the whole dynamic of something.

49:30 I feel like I messed up with my explanation there.

49:34 It is easier to control one thing when you have an immense

49:40 amount of control over one thing.

49:42 I feel like I, and also in that dynamic to the person being

49:46 controlled, gives full control over your mentality.

49:51 Everything. When your mentality is under

49:54 submission of someone who is abusive, manipulative and

49:57 control, it's your entire life. It it completely takes over.

50:03 So I felt like I learned at a very young age what that was,

50:07 what it looked like. Now, mind you, when I left that

50:09 I had to unlearn a lot too because it was very confusing

50:14 for me. So Killeen, you were in a

50:17 different environment. I was dealing with that and

50:22 there was some, you know, there was a lot that happened within

50:27 that. Obviously there was a lot that

50:29 happened. It really, it really, really was

50:34 hard for me, honestly, and that environment.

50:36 So I feel like I also wasn't mind you guys, we made our

50:40 mistakes, but I don't feel like we were absolute terrible kids.

50:44 I think trying to process and navigate and figure out what the

50:48 heck's going on. All of this stuff's happening

50:51 all the time. It's really hard.

50:52 You don't have structure, you don't have a home, you don't

50:54 have a base, you don't have anywhere to run to.

50:57 You don't have anyone to run to. It's it's very hard.

51:01 And when I was dealing with that environment, I guys, I'm going

51:08 to be honest to whoever's listening.

51:10 I'm going to get a little transparent.

51:11 This episode's kind of taken a little bit of a turn, Kaylene.

51:15 But when I got in that household, I got in a lot of

51:23 trouble for my hands. I know this sounds absolutely

51:26 insane, but I can't explain how much of A tool it took on me.

51:32 I wasn't allowed to sit across the table from a certain person

51:36 or I would get screamed at. I'll never forget they got fries

51:40 and I, I was sitting at the yeah, I was sitting at the

51:45 coffee table and I was eating the fries.

51:47 And I love ketchup. And one thing about me, I don't

51:50 care if there's nothing else in my house, I will have a bottle

51:52 of ketchup I was eating. Like I was like they suddenly

51:57 used to eat ketchup off a spoon. I know when.

51:59 You were a baby used to eat ketchup off a spoon.

52:01 Sorry, but anyway. Are you outing me right?

52:08 Now anyways, wait, where were you eating?

52:10 I was eating at the dining room table like I literally remember

52:12 the situation and I was dipping my fries in the ketchup and this

52:16 person starts screaming at me. You eat 3 fries at an effing

52:21 time. Are you like just going in on me

52:24 about these fries? And it started, it just started

52:29 turning into this thing where I didn't want tea in front of

52:33 anyone. I was getting in trouble at the

52:35 table. Like it got to a point where I

52:37 would be told to go eat somewhere else because of my

52:40 hands. I know it sounds so insane and

52:45 honestly like sometimes it doesn't hit me, but sometimes it

52:49 does. It's like, wow, you know it.

52:50 It took me a long time to be able to like eat in front of

52:53 people. I know a lot of people.

52:55 But that's like a controlling aspect.

52:57 Yeah, and manipulation too. It's like I got, I was sitting

53:03 at the dinner table one time and because every once in a while

53:07 they did that at that house. And I remember the way that I

53:11 don't know, I, I do things odd, I guess.

53:13 I don't know. I'm, I'm different.

53:16 I'm different. I was holding the way I was

53:19 holding my fork. I felt so much shame.

53:24 I got in so much trouble for the way I held my fork all the time.

53:28 You hold it like an effing shovel.

53:29 Why can't you just hold it like a normal person?

53:32 Like going ham on me. I'm like, I I would literally

53:37 practice how to hold my fork and I just, I just didn't know how

53:41 to do it right. I, he would edit that he, I

53:46 didn't mean to say he, they would sit there and scream at me

53:50 about this. And I, I think I had so much

53:54 anxiety that when I was trying to even hold it right, I

53:56 couldn't figure out how to hold it right.

53:57 And guys, I was like, I mean, I was like 1617, you know, from

54:04 young from when that household got custody.

54:07 I mean, this, this was like an ongoing thing for a long time.

54:10 And it really like over time, if someone says something to you

54:15 one time, you think about it, you're like, oh, wow, is that

54:17 like true? When someone's sitting there and

54:19 saying something to you repeatedly for years, you start

54:22 being like, Oh my gosh, like, wow, I don't know how to hold a

54:27 Fort. And I'll never forget, you know,

54:31 you think you leave an environment.

54:33 I, I was out of the household and I went to lunch with some

54:37 friends and we all had gotten a table or whatever.

54:41 I got a BLT and I was, I wanted to like eat in front of

54:47 everybody and I picked up the sandwich and I don't know my

54:51 like, I would really try to eat in front of people.

54:53 Well, this time, so we're all sitting there and I pick up the

54:55 sandwich and I got so much anxiety about my hands.

54:59 I literally just dropped the BLT.

55:02 It fell, some fell in my lap and I was like tearing up.

55:07 I didn't want to look at anybody.

55:08 And one of my good friends was with me.

55:10 I'm like, I just want to go home and like, I I can't do this.

55:13 It's it was so intense for me. Not because just because of the

55:17 dynamic of the situation with my hands, not because of the, you

55:21 know, I felt like people were staring or anything like that.

55:23 I was so ashamed of my hands. Not that people were looking.

55:27 Oh, it's making me tear up because like, taking me back to

55:30 like those moments. I'm like, Dang, man.

55:32 I was like, that was a lot. Yeah, I just got.

55:37 And, you know, I would get screamed at.

55:39 You have spider fingers. Why do your hands look like

55:42 that? And it just, it sounds so

55:44 little, but when it's this is like ongoing for so long and you

55:50 get in so much trouble for it, it does give you a lot of shame.

55:55 So I I just couldn't eat in front of anyone.

55:57 I got to the point, Kayleen and whoever is listening, like if

56:01 you go through something like this, just know there is an end

56:05 to it. At a certain point you just have

56:06 to make the decision. It's not going to be easy,

56:10 obviously, but there it can come to an end it with a decision

56:15 from you. But Kayleen with saying that it

56:19 it went into I couldn't even play games.

56:22 Like I couldn't even play card games unless I had a couple of

56:24 drinks because I was so like I would literally freak out about

56:27 my hands. I couldn't grab the cards.

56:30 So I would just shrug a couple of drinks before I would grab

56:33 because the intensity of how and I never really thought about it

56:38 until I just started sharing that it was shame about my

56:40 hands. So I broke my wrist

56:42 snowboarding, and this was also when I was out of the out of the

56:45 household. I tried I tried doing like a

56:48 flip. I was with friends, whatever.

56:49 It was a great time, but I broke my wrist and I had to have

56:52 surgery on it and I got a plate and screws in there.

56:56 Well, that was one thing right, You know, honestly great memory

57:00 because it, you know, snowboarding, hello with

57:02 friends, fun. But at the same time, when I had

57:07 the surgery, I had a cast on and when I went and got everything

57:12 taken off, I will never forget the day I looked down when they

57:18 took the cast off and I looked down at my wrist and I started

57:20 bawling and I was like my hands are so much Oh my gosh, this is

57:23 making me throw up. I, I looked, I was like looking

57:26 down at my wrist and I was like, I, my hands are so much uglier

57:29 now. Like, how am I going to be able

57:30 to do anything? Like I already hate my hands and

57:34 now I, you know, I have this like scar and everything.

57:40 Like how am I supposed to try to get the courage to be able to

57:43 pick up a fork and stuff like that?

57:45 And it really, you know, I know it sounds so like insane, but if

57:50 anyone that is listening has ever dealt with something, if

57:53 you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't.

57:55 And that's totally OK. You can listen in.

57:57 But I ended up sending a text and saying, listen, you like

58:02 ruined my life with what you did about my hands.

58:08 And I didn't get a response at the time.

58:10 And I was like, you know, it's fine.

58:11 I'm, I'm not trying to put blame.

58:13 But in that moment when I had surgery and that happened, I was

58:16 like, I, I think I was like maybe 2020 something or my early

58:22 20s. I'm in my early 20s at this

58:25 point. And I'm like this thing that

58:27 I've dealt with since I was younger, it's going to affect me

58:31 for the rest of my life. Like I'm never going to be able

58:32 to like just be normal and play games, anything like that.

58:35 And so before I moved to Arizona, I started spending time

58:40 for many reasons, not just this. I would go to restaurants by

58:43 myself. I wanted to get comfortable

58:45 enough in my skin. This was before I even knew I

58:47 was moving to Arizona. I wanted to be comfortable

58:49 enough in my skin to be able to walk into a restaurant and sit

58:52 down and eat. And so I would do that.

58:55 There was this little like diner by the person I was living with

58:59 by that house and I would go there on like weekend mornings

59:03 and I would walk in and it would there would be a lot of people.

59:05 And I was like, I have to face this.

59:07 And I would order a plate of food and I would sit there by

59:09 myself at a table, even if there was 4 chairs and I'm like, I'm

59:12 going to eat this plate of food. I'm hungry and I'm going to eat

59:15 this plate of food. And then when I moved to Arizona

59:19 at this also, I will never forget I met someone through a

59:22 church. She was around my age and we

59:25 went to this place called it was a restaurant, but I ordered a

59:30 salad. I ate almost the whole salad

59:34 sitting in front of her and when I left, like to her, we were

59:37 just like hanging out. When I left, I felt like I

59:41 conquered the world. I was like I sat in my car and I

59:44 was like I ate a salad in front of someone like I held my fork

59:48 and I did it. But the guy guys, the point of

59:54 like, I don't know why I shared that, but the point when someone

59:57 has like the strict household, there was so much more than it

1:00:01 being strict and Kelian sharing the freedom.

1:00:03 There's a lot. The point of us sharing these

1:00:06 things is because the intensity of the freedom, you see how that

1:00:11 freedom went deeper, 6 feet deeper, how the strict it goes 6

1:00:17 feet deeper. There's so much behind these

1:00:19 things and you can just hear things.

1:00:21 But when you're crossing paths with people, we can't just.

1:00:26 Here, oh, you know that hurt or oh, I stubbed my toe.

1:00:31 What if they stubbed their toe and they broke their toenail and

1:00:34 you're thinking, get over it. You stubbed your toe and then

1:00:37 you look down and their whole toes bruised you.

1:00:40 You just don't know the intensity of what the pain and

1:00:43 what people have been through and the point of the strict

1:00:46 versus freedom. The whole thing of this was to

1:00:51 explain the intensity of both sides and that there is

1:00:54 understanding and anyone that is dealing with, even if it's one

1:00:57 side, just the freedom or just the strict, you're not alone on

1:01:02 my throat's freaking out. But at the same time, there's

1:01:07 other people that have gone through it and there is hope and

1:01:11 there is at a certain point a way out.

1:01:14 You may not see it now. You may be stuck like we were

1:01:16 because we were kids. We didn't get to make a decision

1:01:19 and stuff like that. How people kept getting custody

1:01:22 and blah blah blah, I have no idea.

1:01:24 Genuinely no freaking clue. But we kind of went a little

1:01:30 long with this one, so. Really quick, I did just want to

1:01:36 say like I can fully admit that there's not been one time that

1:01:40 you were sitting next to me in front of me at all.

1:01:42 Ever eaten in front of me and I never once ever noticed.

1:01:47 Like I that made me sad, but I never noticed your hands at all.

1:01:52 Like I'm so serious, like I, I think you are so beautiful 90%

1:02:01 of the time. Like I, I just noticed like the

1:02:05 great things about you, like you're just a lot of things.

1:02:12 Like I don't want to like nitpick, but you know.

1:02:17 Just. Like, like your eyes, you have

1:02:21 beautiful eyes and yeah, like honestly, I, I love your arms.

1:02:26 I love, like, there's so much about you and I, I see you like

1:02:30 sometimes. No, literally I'm not.

1:02:33 I'm not just saying. That like you're such a

1:02:35 beautiful because. I don't know.

1:02:37 I love you so much and I appreciate you so much.

1:02:39 I'm also like, I think looking back on it, I don't think I've

1:02:43 talked like in depth like that about it for so long.

1:02:46 You know, you can go around and share all day and like, Oh my

1:02:48 gosh, I ate three fries like, but at the end of the day, it

1:02:52 really impacted my life for a long time.

1:02:53 But sitting here talking about it and like talking with you and

1:02:58 whoever's listening, I, that's not my life anymore, you know,

1:03:05 like. Right.

1:03:06 It's making me. Cry and you have.

1:03:07 You have conquered it. I'm so happy for you.

1:03:11 I really am. I that's the hard thing.

1:03:15 And. Killing us.

1:03:17 Too. And we were, we were just kids

1:03:19 and so misunderstood. So I think that's why whoever's

1:03:23 listening, I know we were kind of me and killing.

1:03:25 We're more engaged with each other in this episode.

1:03:28 It's just we were sharing and whoever's listening as you're

1:03:31 listening, we get it. Honestly, we get it and it's

1:03:36 hard and it's not easy to navigate.

1:03:38 And we are adults now, but we also remember how it felt as

1:03:41 kids. So whether you're an adult

1:03:43 trying to deal with things or a kid trying to deal with things,

1:03:48 we we get all the angles of it. So we are going to wrap up this

1:03:52 episode. Sorry to leave you guys on such

1:03:54 like a sad no order some ice cream, watch a funny movie.

1:04:00 Sorry to make you sad if we did. If you're not lactose intolerant

1:04:05 like my hubby. Just kidding.

1:04:07 Still eat it guys. If you're intolerant, do what

1:04:09 you need to. All righty bye then.

1:04:13 I'll see you in the next fun y'all all.

1:04:14 Right, bye.